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  1.  
    Even if he didn’t do anything sexual, he had sleepover parties with young boys. Let that marinate
  2.  
    Posted By: ruffstuff88Even if he didn’t do anything sexual, he had sleepover parties with young boys. Let that marinate


    Yes, goddamn creepy as fuck. Parents should be incarcerated for that. I'm serious.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: usul
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    A better documentary.

    • AC/DC rock music: Rajd07
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Being a Jacko fan must mean being in denial as default. Guilty or not, those accusations seem to never stop follow him.
  3.  
    There’s no laws against slandering the dead.

    That’s all I have to put forward on to this subject.
    • AC/DC rock music: u5ername
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Missing out on his childhood doesn't actually explain his actions - many people miss out on their childhood, and they don't try and then obtain in adulthood BY SLEEPING WITH 8 YEAR OLD BOYS! FFS, people are massively in denial over this.

    Always friends with , obsessed with, pretty boys ages 8 to 12/13, then lost interest. Always
    Never shared his bed with any fat ugly boys
    Never any girls
    All alleged victims have similar stories

    Any other individual and their guilt would not be doubted by any rational person - people just don't like admitting that Michael Jackson was an epic nonce.
  4.  
    His home was raided, unannounced, by the FBI. Nothing was found, no porn, no photos, no nothing. A lot of Peter Pan stuff, though. And candy, it seems.

    His penis was examined by doctors before the trial (there's a video on youtube with him saying how shameful the whole procedure was, well...no shit!). Won´t go into details, use your imagination as to why that was needed.

    He was judged and declared not guilty by a jury. Hundreds of people came in and gave testimony. Do we believe in Justice, or we don´t?

    If we think throwing people to the lions with a thumbs down is fine, then cool, but come clean and admit it.
  5.  
    I really don´t know why you won´t believe this, the "penis video" I mentioned before.



    But take whatever other dude's statement as total truth.

    The pain this man went through because of money seeking sharks, it's unheard of.
    • AC/DC rock music: 900
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Posted By: u5ernameAlways friends with , obsessed with, pretty boys ages 8 to 12/13, then lost interest. Always
    Never shared his bed with any fat ugly boys
    Never any girls


    It's still not evidence though; it doesn't necessarily mean he was a paedophile, interested in those kids for sexual reasons..

    Maybe I'd be convinced if I watched the new documentary. But I've never been convinced about all this previously.
  6.  
    Isn't Back In Black the second highest selling album of all time right behind Jackon's Thriller? Or has that changed? I thought it was at one point. I may be mistaken.
  7.  
    Posted By: 900Maybe I'd be convinced if I watched the new documentary.


    I've seen half of that junk, talking heads, Michael did this, Michael did that, no evidence as usual. There's money on this, people should understand this very simple concept. Everybody likes money, right?
    • AC/DC rock music: u5ername
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Posted By: 900
    Posted By: u5ernameAlways friends with , obsessed with, pretty boys ages 8 to 12/13, then lost interest. Always
    Never shared his bed with any fat ugly boys
    Never any girls


    It's still not evidence though; it doesn't necessarily mean he was a paedophile, interested in those kids for sexual reasons..

    Maybe I'd be convinced if I watched the new documentary. But I've never been convinced about all this previously.


    True, if you want physical evidence like recordings or photos, there will probably be none - but there are repeated patterns of behaviour that are hard to explain away. I have a friend in social services, works child protection - says that Jackson's case has all the classic hallmarks of pedophile grooming. Combine that with repeat accusations and testimonies - for all of that to be lies, and for his behaviour to just be an unfortunate circumstance, would be truly extraordinary.

    Occam's Razor.
    • AC/DC rock music: u5ername
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Posted By: BallToucher
    Posted By: 900Maybe I'd be convinced if I watched the new documentary.


    I've seen half of that junk, talking heads, Michael did this, Michael did that, no evidence as usual. There's money on this, people should understand this very simple concept. Everybody likes money, right?


    Michael Jackson being a pedophile is actually a more plausible explanation. Imagine a famous celeb - imagine these accusations appear and there's no evidence - we wouldn't believe them, we'd rightly say give us some evidence before you trash a hero. But, with Jackson, it has been going on for years and years, from multiple sources - that is not a case of people of trying to make a quick buck. A 40 year old man repeatedly sleeps with children - many of those children say he abused them - all with similar stories - and people scratch their heads , saying "this is about money". Wow.
    • AC/DC rock music: 900
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Understood, u5ername, but even with Occam's Razor, it can't be for sure. What about the Birmingham 6 and things like that?
  8.  
    Posted By: BallToucherHis home was raided, unannounced, by the FBI. Nothing was found, no porn, no photos, no nothing. A lot of Peter Pan stuff, though. And candy, it seems.

    His penis was examined by doctors before the trial (there's a video on youtube with him saying how shameful the whole procedure was, well...no shit!). Won´t go into details, use your imagination as to why that was needed.

    He was judged and declared not guilty by a jury. Hundreds of people came in and gave testimony. Do we believe in Justice, or we don´t?

    If we think throwing people to the lions with a thumbs down is fine, then cool, but come clean and admit it.


    What do you make of the fact that an adult man had sleepover with little boys and took “traveling companions” on tour with him. I’m genuinely curious. Never mind the lawsuits what do you make of these facts. We know he spent time in the company of boys. You don’t find that extremely bizarre? I don’t know about you man I’m an adult and some days I can barely tolerate my own kids never mind seek the company of children.
  9.  
    Posted By: usulA better documentary.



    Part 2 is a response to the documentary
    • AC/DC rock music: u5ername
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    Posted By: 900Understood, u5ername, but even with Occam's Razor, it can't be for sure. What about the Birmingham 6 and things like that?


    Yeah, fair point - but i think the reality of historic child abuse cases, is that convictions rarely come from concrete damning physical evidence. More a case of piecing together testimonies with patterns of behaviour and concluding that any other explanation is unlikely.
  10.  
    Posted By: ruffstuff88
    Posted By: BallToucherHis home was raided, unannounced, by the FBI. Nothing was found, no porn, no photos, no nothing. A lot of Peter Pan stuff, though. And candy, it seems.

    His penis was examined by doctors before the trial (there's a video on youtube with him saying how shameful the whole procedure was, well...no shit!). Won´t go into details, use your imagination as to why that was needed.

    He was judged and declared not guilty by a jury. Hundreds of people came in and gave testimony. Do we believe in Justice, or we don´t?

    If we think throwing people to the lions with a thumbs down is fine, then cool, but come clean and admit it.


    What do you make of the fact that an adult man had sleepover with little boys and took “traveling companions” on tour with him. I’m genuinely curious. Never mind the lawsuits what do you make of these facts. We know he spent time in the company of boys. You don’t find that extremely bizarre? I don’t know about you man I’m an adult and some days I can barely tolerate my own kids never mind seek the company of children.
    Agree. That is pretty sick.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: angus1878
    • Mar 8th 2019
     
    • AC/DC rock music: ianbigmac
    • Mar 8th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: SteelVoltageIsn't Back In Black the second highest selling album of all time right behind Jackon's Thriller? Or has that changed? I thought it was at one point. I may be mistaken.



    Not even close now
  11.  
    Posted By: SteelVoltageIsn't Back In Black the second highest selling album of all time right behind Jackon's Thriller? Or has that changed? I thought it was at one point. I may be mistaken.


    I'm pretty sure it was about 10 years ago. Not anymore.

    Also, according to the internet Thriller is not in the number 1 spot anymore either.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: Briany
    • Mar 8th 2019 edited
     
    How come Michael Jackson has his defenders but pretty much everyone agrees that Jimmy Saville was a massive sexual predator? We're talking the same level of evidence, here. No bodily fluids or photos. Rather, victim testimony.

    I think the reason why is that one of those guys sang ABC and the other guy just announced it on Top of the Pops.
  12.  
    So there was no smoking gun but people think a grown man sleeping with boys in his bed in a fucking bunker is normal and not the smoke to a more horrible fire?

    Really? Really? Really? Ok... go let your kids sleep with Bill down the street who's a really terrific guy, great set of pipes (vocal chords I mean) and has no criminal record whatsoever for pedo behaviour. He really likes boys 9-12 and he'll just watch movies with them, eat popcorn and when he sleeps with them he'll NEVER touch them. Promise.

    Get a fucking clue.
  13.  
    Posted By: Bedlam_in_TorontoSo there was no smoking gun but people think a grown man sleeping with boys in his bed in a fucking bunker is normal and not the smoke to a more horrible fire?

    Really? Really? Really? Ok... go let your kids sleep with Bill down the street who's a really terrific guy, great set of pipes (vocal chords I mean) and has no criminal record whatsoever for pedo behaviour. He really likes boys 9-12 and he'll just watch movies with them, eat popcorn and when he sleeps with them he'll NEVER touch them. Promise.

    Get a fucking clue.
    You are 100% correct! Why the fuck would a grown ass man sleep with little boys? are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, let your kids sleep with Bill down the street. In the same bed. And let him take them to another country, and sleep with them there! Pull your heads out of the sand! Allegations AGAINST victims are what keep people from speaking up! So by the logic of some of the people here saying it’s just for the money, does that mean if he wasn’t rich he would be guilty? Guess so.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: Thankass
    • Mar 9th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: BrianyHow come Michael Jackson has his defenders but pretty much everyone agrees that Jimmy Saville was a massive sexual predator? We're talking the same level of evidence, here. No bodily fluids or photos. Rather, victim testimony.

    I think the reason why is that one of those guys sang ABC and the other guy just announced it on Top of the Pops.
    Jimmy molested kids live in front of the camera..

    •  
      AC/DC rock music: angus1878
    • Mar 9th 2019 edited
     
    dont want this to come across as homophobic...but in the pub last night a friend brought up Freddie Mercury after he had watched Bohemian Rhapsody...and after some discussion we came to the conclusion that even tho he was gay...he was more of a man than Jackson......hope you all get my gist !!!
  14.  
    Posted By: angus1878dont want this to come across as homophobic...but in the pub last night a friend brought up Freddie Mercury after he had watched Bohemian Rhapsody...and after some discussion we came to the conclusion that even tho he was gay...he was more of a man than Jackson......hope you all get my gist !!!


    i do get your gist but i think the "tho" is the issue because it strongly implies being gay makes you less of a man - sorry to be Captain PC n all!:)
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: angus1878
    • Mar 9th 2019
     
    no captain PC is correct no need to apologise..but pissed up discussions are always good, and it was strange how we got into that topic of conversation...we also discussed Jacskons innocence....but is the damage done ?...i think i read there is a west end musical in London called Thriller..its been sold out for years...now people are taking their tickets back to the theatre and wanting refunds.
    • AC/DC rock music: rideon77
    • Mar 9th 2019
     
    Fuck Gold and fame diggers
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: bonlives
    • Mar 10th 2019
     
    I’ve witnessed first hand what a false allegation of molestation can do to a man. I hope to fuck that no one here ever finds themselves in the same situation.

    No, I’m not saying the allegations against Jackson are false. No, I’m not saying the allegations against Jackson are true.

    I’m saying they are allegations.

    Like when you get a speeding fine - you are alleged to have committed the offence of exceeding the prescribed speed limit. If a photo has been taken, that is considered prima facie evidence that you committed the offence, but the evidence can be refuted. You can accept the prescribed penalty and a conviction is recorded against your record, or you can contest the allegation in court and allow a judge to consider your evidence or mitigating circumstances and then make a decision as to guilt and penalty. And you submit to the authority of that judge and their decision, with rights to appeal of course.

    That is a process enacted through legislation passed by democratically elected governments, to afford everyone fortunate enough to be living in those jurisdictions, due process, procedural fairness and natural justice. Many people, perhaps the majority of people on earth, are not afforded such basic human rights.

    I’m saying that we must put our confidence in the processes, agencies and institutions that we as a free society, have put in place and established for the purposes of investigating and determining innocence or guilt. We absolutely must, otherwise we return to the days when baying mobs decided who was innocent or guilty, or we accept that unelected dictators can and should pass judgement with or without evidence, and with or without transparency. It still happens in the world.

    Jackson was put through those processes, was tried and was not convicted. Settling out of court is not an admission of guilt and not a conviction. There are plenty of reasons why someone, anyone, might elect to settle. If contesting a $50 speeding fine would cost me a days wage and pictures of my dick being shown to the press, I’d settle too (and then sell my dick pics for $51 to the press, I ain’t stupid).

    You can read every word that was spoken at Jackson’s trial via the recorded official court transcripts and I encourage you all to do that. I have.

    Jackson is absolutely guilty of stupidity. No trial needed there. But he is not a convicted molester. I’m not defending him. That’s his and his lawyer’s job. I’m stating a fact.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: bonlives
    • Mar 10th 2019
     
    Posted By: bonlivesunelected dictators can and should pass judgement with or without evidence, and with or without transparency. It still happens in the world.
    ... hell, it happens on this forum :)
    • AC/DC rock music: 900
    • Mar 10th 2019
     
    Nice to see someone with the balls to make these points and do it so lucidly - very nicely gauged, bonlives.

    It certainly *seems* that MJ did those ghastly things. But while it isn't proven, perhaps some people could make their points in a less self-righteous way.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: bonlives
    • Mar 10th 2019
     
    Not wanting to sound overly principled, but we’re all (I hope) located in places that have these processes etc in place. We’re extremely lucky - most can’t hope for fair trials. We have to defend that.

    Someone mentioned the Birmingham 6 (whoever did, thank you - fascinating reading) - an extraordinary miscarriage of justice.

    Like everyone I imagine, I prefer to have a conviction, someone to point at and say “yep, that so and so did that bad thing”. But like everyone, I hope, I want that conviction to be right and reached properly - not just for conviction’s sake.

    There is a trial underway here in Australia relating to an alleged serial killer. It’s huge news. I think everyone desperately wants a conviction, and I think for most the prospect of an acquittal is frightening. But...

    I’ve just spilled beer all over the couch, fuck it.. I’ll be back.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: bonlives
    • Mar 10th 2019
     
    ... and I’m back. Never drink and post folks.

    But... the conviction, or acquittal, has to be proper. For everyone’s sake. We can’t be hanging the alleged perp because the supposed evidence that exists but not yet heard is sensational. Let’s have a proper trial and respect the outcome, whatever may come.
    •  
      AC/DC rock music: angus1878
    • Mar 10th 2019 edited
     


    "i ddnt touch her..............shes a girl" lol
  15.  
    ^^^ Bonlives, I hear you about false allegations. But I'm suspecting the person in question didn't have hundreds of millions of dollars to hire the best lawyers and that that man did not invite multiple children from other families to hang out with him constantly and sleep in a bed with him.

    Those, I believe, are shockingly extreme circumstances that point to the fact that Jacko was either mentally ill or a pedo.

    Perhaps, as you said, he was only guilty of extreme stupidity. But these are not the circumstances of an ordinary man being accused of a heinous crime. Nothing like this has EVER been exposed to our society in modern history as just a case of a misunderstood man-child simply wanting the company (in bed I repeat) of children for purely platonic reasons.
  16.  
    And I'll add this:

    While we must always be vigilant to protect those adults who are falsely accused of a heinous crime, we must be just as vigilant to protect children who are exploited by adults — especially those with the money and means to dismiss those allegations in a court of law.

    More children's lives have been hurt or destroyed by pedo's than innocent adults have been destroyed by those allegations. Both require our vigilance and help and understanding.